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« on: October 16, 2007, 12:17:51 AM » |
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This post is inspired by the following reaction to California's new Bill on the presentation of same-sex relationships in public schools:
I front paged this, since I'm curious to see more view points on it. Here's what I had to say:
It isn't messed up. There.
There's nothing wrong with supporting same sex relationships for kids, I don't understand why everyone has such a big fucking hissy fit about this. And in regards to this article, it's sounds like conservative propaganda that has been misquoted and/or made to sound like Arnold did something worse than what he really did.
The bills signed by Schwarzenegger include SB777, which bans anything in public schools that could be interpreted as negative toward homosexuality, bisexuality and other alternative lifestyle choices.
This sounds fine to me-- I don't see anything anywhere that says that he has outlawed "traditional values" or told people that they can't say certain things like "Mom and Dad" at all, all of this sounds like heresay.
All of the points that are made stating that "You can't say 'Mom and Dad'" anymore are in QUOTATIONS. Meaning that some dumb fuck said them and interpreted the law this way, NOT ARNOLD, and not the BILL that was written. You need to read through the way that these over-conservative assholes present this information, because they use these quotes from their "analysts" to make it look like the law is doing something, when really it ISN'T.
CCF noted that now on a banned list will be any text, reference or teaching aid that portrays marriage as only between a man and woman, materials that say people are born male or female (and not in between), sources that fail to include a variety of transsexual, bisexual and homosexual historical figures, and sex education materials that fail to offer the option of sex changes.
There's nothing wrong with this. THIS IS GOOD. This is just people taking shit too far because they are worried that their kids will turn out "gay" if they learn about homosexuality, etc.
Homosexuality, etc. was everywhere in history, and all this law is doing is saying that you cannot censor information and make it appear that HETEROSEXUALITY is the only "acceptable" option. I.E. talking about the Romans and IGNORING all of the pedophilia and homosexuality that went on. IT HAPPENED IN EVEY SOCIETY AND WAS TOTALLY ACCEPTED IN MANY, even pedophilia. It's not saying that you can't talk about "normal" relationships or that they aren't "acceptable anymore". It's just saying that you can't censor information to make it appear that it is "more acceptable" or the "only right way".
It doesn't ban "Mom and Dad" from being said, it bans using this phrase as if to implement that there can/should not be any relationship other than this. "Parents", etc. I hate being Politically Correct just as much as anyone else but this law is not designed to penalize "traditional" values by any means and if you see that in this then you are probably tasting your own shit right now because your head is so far up your ass.
Good job Schwarzenegger, shut the fuck up conservative media and annoying parents with no intelligence.
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« Last Edit: October 16, 2007, 12:29:14 AM by MetalMusicMan »
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« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2007, 12:52:37 AM » |
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While where i live in Canada is possibly the most right wing and redneck place, i still know about 3 gay guys in my school, who are cool guys, who no one targets. Up here there are a lot of laws already about not being able to spread sexual hatred or any other kind of hatred for that matter.
It seems to say a lot about the states that a piece of legislature that would be taken for granted in Canada causes people to go apeshit just because its not their personal way of life... I could never, and will never live in the states... ever... There is just so much about it that goes against everything i think is right.
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« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2007, 06:40:05 AM » |
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I have to agree with Yoggi here. The hatred in the states is growing. It's probably related to the economy and war uncertainty, but I'm noticing a lot of racist material on youtube coming from the states, and racist and anti gay rights propaganda is spreading. That kind of shit is illegal in Canada. Why? Because your freedom to say and influence people is not more important then someone's right to not be beaten / killed.
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« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2007, 10:14:04 AM » |
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i never really investigated Arnold's politics because i wasn't so hot about his environmental policies, but i am AMAZED that he (let alone a conservative politician) was the one to instigate the policy, let alone make a stand against the anti-gay issues going on in America right now that seem to be such a big deal to everyone.
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« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2007, 10:54:57 AM » |
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thanks will, i myself am pulling up the actual bills here to see what it actualy does, to get the truth from politics, if you want the link for sb777 its http://info.sen.ca.gov/pub/07-08/bill/sen/sb_0751-0800/sb_777_bill_20070917_enrolled.pdfthe thjings i find amusing are the ability to change in the womans locker room as a guy. because you feel like it. ... i still have lots more to read before i have an actual opinion |
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« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2007, 11:50:25 AM » |
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212.3 -- 'Religion' includes all aspects of religious belief, observance, and practice and includes agnosticism and atheism.
212.6 -- 'Sexual Orientation' means heterosexuality, homosexuality, or bisexuality. Quoted directly from the Bill that Julian linked. This is awesome and fantastic and how anyone could interpret this as "unfair to traditional values" is beyond me. i still have lots more to read before i have an actual opinion GOOD! Any opinion of your own is 100% more respectable than that of propaganda and slander spreading bastards of either the liberal OR conservative views. |
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« Last Edit: October 16, 2007, 11:54:33 AM by MetalMusicMan »
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« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2007, 04:57:25 PM » |
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I'm anti-gay. I'm against gays getting married. I'm against open homosexuality. If you are for those things, good for you, I won't hold it against you. However, I don't believe in open discrimination against gays. If you know someone is gay and they aren't being openly homoesexual about it (fine, tell people you're gay, but don't expect people to change shit for you), leave them alone. If someone is being harassed in school for being homosexual, the person harassing them should be prosecuted under typical discrimination laws. Don't invent a new set of laws to change how things have been running for a long ass time though. I'm tired right now and I'm going to get something to eat, so maybe I'll be clearer later.
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« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2007, 05:07:26 PM » |
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Problem is Gamdol, the way things have worked and still work, well, it doesn't work. It hasn't worked in the past, and it won't work in the future, so i see any changes like this for the better, because face it, the continuing and unflagging violent hate crimes against homosexuals (and lack of real consequences in 99% of cases, ie, everything that's not super high profile) are a sign that there is something seriously wrong with this country.
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« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2007, 06:06:49 PM » |
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Don't invent a new set of laws to change how things have been running for a long ass time though.
the previous laws that said dont discriminate against blacks didnt work, and only when new laws were passed did the states have to fall in line, and either correct or be corrected. blacks had the right to vote and be equal across the nation, but were still being held down in particular areas. It wasnt until the federal gvt mandated that discrimination be eliminated for their particular cause that changes took place. Just look back in history , or hell even present, if you dont make specific laws (i.e laws that ban homosexual harassment) senators, lawmakers, and the public will continue to find loop holes. taking the dog by the nose and yelling "no!' doesnt match the effect that "dont shit on my porch!" has. and to the argument that its just not necessary to make such specific laws, how can you want to stop a potentially problem solving law just because you think that everything has been ok for "a long ass time". what can the addition of this law bring that is so horrible? |
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« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2007, 06:40:15 PM » |
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equality does not exist in this country, sory to burst your bubble
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« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2007, 07:16:48 PM » |
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equality does not exist in this country, sory to burst your bubble
im not saying that it does, but why give up the hope for it. If striving for equality only gets us partly there, then not trying at all would result in far worse conditions. just because something cant be 100% achieved, doesnt mean you give up hope for changing how things are. |
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« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2007, 08:39:53 PM » |
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Don't invent a new set of laws to change how things have been running for a long ass time though.
the previous laws that said dont discriminate against blacks didnt work, and only when new laws were passed did the states have to fall in line, and either correct or be corrected. blacks had the right to vote and be equal across the nation, but were still being held down in particular areas. It wasnt until the federal gvt mandated that discrimination be eliminated for their particular cause that changes took place. Just look back in history , or hell even present, if you dont make specific laws (i.e laws that ban homosexual harassment) senators, lawmakers, and the public will continue to find loop holes. Take those loopholes, amend current laws to stop them. You think people who want to won't be able to find loopholes in these new laws? Bullshit. Amend what we we have and put a stricter enforcement on it. If the people enforcing the law don't want it to be in effect, they will be much less likely to act upon violations, regardless of how specific they are. I don't in the slightest believe that what this law offers will have any major change on people at all, but will largely cause a lot of unnecessary spending (largely books etc., can't have illegal phrases in school books!). People who look for loopholes find them, any amount of complexity in the law affords numerous exploitations. taking the dog by the nose and yelling "no!' doesnt match the effect that "dont shit on my porch!" has.
Bad choice of example on your part, longer disciplinary actions have less effects on dogs. A stern, 'no' will get you much farther than a specific statement. A dog can equate 'no' to a bad action very easily (half tone, half repitition), but a specific phrase will have little effect. Random little tidbits ftw? and to the argument that its just not necessary to make such specific laws,
how can you want to stop a potentially problem solving law just because you think that everything has been ok for "a long ass time". what can the addition of this law bring that is so horrible?
Mostly a lot of unnecessary changes it will force to happen. Like I said before, just amend what we have, don't try to overturn a whole society that was largely accepting because of a few dickwads who found loopholes. |
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« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2007, 08:57:24 PM » |
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equality does not exist in this country, sory to burst your bubble
im not saying that it does, but why give up the hope for it. If striving for equality only gets us partly there, then not trying at all would result in far worse conditions. just because something cant be 100% achieved, doesnt mean you give up hope for changing how things are. i stateded a fact and you assume i was giving up??? oh my dear boy no, chage is good, also i never said it couldnt be acheived, it can and will happen, seeing as you are one who doubts change and assume others do too screams volumes of you, and not in a good way, change will always happen weither you try and stop it or let it flourish, things will change and develop till time itself ends. |
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« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2007, 09:10:54 PM » |
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I'm anti-gay. I'm against gays getting married. I'm against open homosexuality. If you are for those things, good for you, I won't hold it against you. However, I don't believe in open discrimination against gays. If you know someone is gay and they aren't being openly homoesexual about it (fine, tell people you're gay, but don't expect people to change shit for you), leave them alone. That's fucking retarded though, how can you even say that without seeing how blatantly racist/sexist that is? So you're against open homosexuality, meaning that you think that anyone who is gay should just have to keep it a secret and hide in the dark and be ashamed of what they feel and have no control over? That is NO DIFFERENT than forcing Blacks to sit at the back of the bus, or use separate bathrooms than white people, because they have no control that they are Black, and are no different than us because of that fact. That's such a terribly narrow minded and ignorant thing to say. Fuck that man. Fuck that. |
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« Reply #14 on: October 16, 2007, 09:23:59 PM » |
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I'm anti-gay. I'm against gays getting married. I'm against open homosexuality. If you are for those things, good for you, I won't hold it against you. However, I don't believe in open discrimination against gays. If you know someone is gay and they aren't being openly homoesexual about it (fine, tell people you're gay, but don't expect people to change shit for you), leave them alone. That's fucking retarded though, how can you even say that without seeing how blatantly racist/sexist that is? So you're against open homosexuality, meaning that you think that anyone who is gay should just have to keep it a secret and hide in the dark and be ashamed of what they feel and have no control over? That is NO DIFFERENT than forcing Blacks to sit at the back of the bus, or use separate bathrooms than white people, because they have no control that they are Black, and are no different than us because of that fact. That's such a terribly narrow minded and ignorant thing to say. Fuck that man. Fuck that. Someone wants to be gay? Fine. Someone wants to have a rainbow sticker announcing they're gay on their car and shout it to the word? Fine. Someone who is gay wants to have a greater effect on the lives of children in school (not teaching or some shit, but changing stuff so that they are openly given the idea of being gay in a public school system)? Fuck that. I don't think gay people should be allowed to adopt or get married (officially documented, have a ceremony if you want). I am anti-gay, I don't personally want to know if someone is gay. If they are and they don't cup my balls during SSB, and don't talk to me about it (unless it's like, coming out the closet so I can tell them I'm not comfortable talking to them about it), I couldn't give a shit. If you are openly gay I -will- look down upon simply because you are gay. You may see it as ignorance, and hell, it probably is (I'd stick with lack of desire to see the other side), but I couldn't give a flying shit if you think it is. |
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