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Author Topic: America was Founded on Religion, and Other Lies Told to You  (Read 8458 times)
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« on: October 01, 2009, 12:22:58 PM »

I'm kind of surprised that I never posted this.  For anyone who is in need of proof of their wrongness, or for anyone frustrated with lies, and in need of facts, here you go. Sorry you have to sift through my opinions to get to the facts, but trust me, there are good ones  in there. If anyone wants the sources for any of the quotes or information, just let me know, and ill get them to you. Most are all published historical books, and letters.

Kthxbye




The Integration of Religion in American Government

The United States has seen over the years an increased presence and integration of religion in government. However, religion was not always so connected with government, and more importantly was not even intended to be connected to government by our founding fathers.  Moreover, specific religious ideas that have been intertwined in the United States government which are accepted as moral foundations of society now were not originally incorporated in the government or the creation of this country. On the contrary, the separation of church and state was a belief that was shared by the founding fathers, and a belief that they took steps to preserve. Many people in society believe that religion is correctly intertwined in our government, when in fact it was never meant to be there. There are countless examples of how modern politicians and lawmakers have twisted the original intent of the founding fathers to align this country with more traditional religious, specifically Christian, beliefs. Over time, these beliefs have become accepted as cornerstones of our governmental structure, and have only served to deter this country and its people from reaching the goal of religious freedom.

   Many people incorrectly believe that this society and government were established on traditional religious beliefs, specifically those of Christian denomination. It is also incorrect to say that this country was founded by devout Christians, or even founded by people of the same religion. The founders of this country “…were a mix of freethinkers, atheists, Christians, agnostics, Freemasons and Deists” (Morgan 25). It is only rational to agree that the principles this country was founded on should rightfully dictate what direction this country’s future should take. It is then curious that people continue to debate the original foundations of this country’s government and continue to integrate religion into government, when a small document in history is very specific about the founding fathers’ original intent. In 1796, John Adams and George Washington united to pass the treaty of Tripoli, in which it stated “The government of The United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion” (Morgan 24). This is undeniable evidence that the United States was not founded on any facet of Christian religion, nor was there any attempt made to ignore the question of whether or not religion should be a foundation of government.

Historical figure Thomas Paine, a man who greatly influenced both the founding fathers and the creation of this country, was an opponent to all formalized religions and their inclusion in government, and an outspoken opponent to Christianity. Paine stated that, “of all the systems of religion that ever were invented, there is no more derogatory to the Almighty, more unedifying to man, more repugnant to reason, and more contradictory in itself than this thing called Christianity” (Morgan 26). As such an influential figure to the founding fathers, Paine’s ideas and hatred towards Christianity were used as motives to keep religion separated from government.  Additionally Ben Franklin, a leading contributor to both the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, did not believe in the traditional values of Christianity, nor did he believe in their involvement in government. He was a man of science who “rejected churches, rituals, and all ‘supernatural superstitions’” (Morgan 26). It is also pertinent to note that George Washington, a supposed devout Christian, believed more fundamentally with the beliefs of Deists and Freemasons, ones very unlike the doctrine of Christianity. “Whenever he (rarely) attended church, Washington always deliberately left before communion, demonstrating disbelief in Christianity’s central ceremony” (Morgan 27).
In addition, following the end of the Revolutionary War, Washington kept strict correspondence with many Church leaders and officials. In one of Washington’s letters addressed to a Protestant Church, he addresses his desires for religious involvement in their newly founded country: “Convinced that our Religious Liberties were as essential as our Civil my endeavors have never been wanting to encourage and promote one, while I have been contending for another…” (Cousins 56). Here Washington addresses the fact that in the creation of the United States, the religious liberties of the people are just as important as the civil liberties, and he has no intent of favoring one religion in the creation of government over another. Additionally, Thomas Jefferson was very well known for his opposition to the traditional Christian church. “Jefferson professed disbelief in the Trinity and the divinity of Jesus Christ, while respecting moral teachings by whomever might have been a historical Jesus” (Morgan 28). He argued with Patrick Henry over Henry’s desire to make the government into a Christian theocracy, and wrote of his disagreement with many parts of the Bible to John Adams, stating “The whole history of these books [the Gospels] is so defective and doubtful. Evidence that parts are proceeded from an extraordinary man; and that other parts are of the fabric of very inferior minds” (Morgan 28). Jefferson also opposed an amendment to the preamble of the constitution that included the name of Jesus Christ in the opening paragraph. Indeed, Jefferson worked tirelessly against politician’s desires to make this new government into a form of theocracy, or even form a foundation around specific religious principles.  Jefferson, like many of the founding fathers, believed in preserving the secularity of the Unites States government at any cost. This evidence by Washington, Jefferson, and many of the other founding fathers, directly shows that they had no intention of basing the foundations of government on one religion, or favoring one religion over another in the formation of the government.

Many people have argued that although “all of America’s founding fathers may not have been Christians […] they were overwhelmingly influenced by a Christian worldview and regarded Christianity as fundamental to a healthy political order” (West Jr. 38). This is an idea that, although is proven false time and time again, is held on to by people who believe our government is based on one religion: Christianity. Even though letters remain from the founding fathers that detail their specific beliefs and desires for the new government, many still cling to the idea that the founding fathers were influenced by the fundamentals of Christianity. These people claim that the United States was founded by people who were influenced by the fundamentals of Christianity, and believe that the structure for lawmaking and governing is highly influenced by religion. “It’s a commonly stated error that U.S law, based on English common law, is thus grounded in Judeo-Christian tradition” (Morgan 27). Thomas Jefferson even went out of his way to address this idea when the government was still being formed.  “Jefferson noted that common law ‘is the system of law which was introduced by the Saxons on their settlement in England […] about the middle of the fifth century. But Christianity was not introduced till the seventh century’” (Morgan 27-28). In this way, it is correct to say that the United States legislature is based on the English theory of common law; but to say that common law and therefore our system of government is based off of Christianity is completely untrue considering that the concepts of common law predate Christianity by 200 years.  “According to Isaac Kramnick and R. Laurence Moore,

“The principle framers of the American political system wanted no religious parties in national        politics. They crafted a constitutional order that intended to make a person’s religious convictions, or his lack of religious convictions, irrelevant in the judging the value of his political opinion or in assessing the qualifications to hold political office”” (West Jr. 38).

It is apparent then, that not only did the founding fathers work against favoring or basing their government in one religion, but they also went out of their way to state that their government was not influenced or rooted in any religious governments, and was designed with secular ideas in mind. Additionally, they sought to exterminate all religious discrimination in office, and wanted to work to keep religion simply a personal belief. All of the founding fathers kept their religious beliefs to themselves, and felt that those beliefs had no indication quality or relevance to any political office being held by any of them. However, even with their tireless efforts to reduce and control religious influence in the newly formed country, religion slowly crept into many important facets of the government that exists today.

    In today’s society there exist many forms of religious interference with the desired secularity of American government. It is undeniable that Christian ideals and practices have influenced the everyday lives of both religious and non-religious people. Businesses that close on Sundays started out that way to accommodate the Christian religions that protested work on the Sabbath. Prohibition during the twenties originated because religious fundamentalists believed alcohol to be the root of society’s evils. However, no two examples of religious influence in government are integrated into our daily lives from childhood on, more than the phrase “under God” in the Pledge of Allegiance and the line “in God we trust” on every piece of U.S. currency. The motto “In God We Trust” was not made the motto of the United States until Congress passed an act in 1956. Likewise, the motto was not seen on American money until 1864. Concerning both of these points, the phrases concerning religion and God were not added until much after the time they were created, and distract from the original intent and the significance of not including a reference to a specific religion or deity. The words “under God” were not included in the Pledge of Allegiance, which was written in 1892, until 1954. The fact that this clause was not added until more than sixty years later displays the obvious influence over time that religion has had over government.

“Since 1954, the Pledge of Allegiance has expressed allegiance to religious as well as political beliefs. Although the First Amendment allows the government to promote patriotism as long as participation is not compelled, the Establishment Clause forbids the government to endorse religion or pressure […]religious belief. The [Pledge of Allegiance] does both and is therefore unconstitutional” (Williams 120).

Francis Bellamy, writer of the Pledge of Allegiance, worked to combat many changes that are now present in the Pledge during his lifetime. He directly opposed any alterations to the Pledge, and descendants of him to this day profess that he would have wanted to keep out any religious additives to the Pledge.  In fact, the change to the pledge was “enacted at the height of the Cold War, when the United States wanted to emphasize its opposition to the ‘godless’ Soviet Union” (Williams 117). When writing the Pledge, Bellamy read numerous accounts and stories of the nations then history, trying to find the precise words to give acknowledgement to founding fathers and the success they had with creating and maintaining this country. To say that a phrase that was added for propaganda reasons to distinguish Americans from the Soviets is equal to phrases specifically picked out to detail the fight and struggles of the nation’s beginning is dishonorable to the Pledge’s original meaning.

   Religion as a whole is a dangerous concept. It has been the cause of evil deeds, and has been the source of disagreement between cultures for centuries. It is commendable then, that the founding fathers of this country made an attempt to keep religion out the nation’s governing body. Regardless, America has formed over the years into a very religious-affiliated country. “Without an established church as in Britain or church-organized political parties as in much of the rest of Europe, America and its political landscape have nonetheless resonated with religious rhetoric. And this in a country that prides itself on separating church and state” (Kosmin and Lachman 157). Since the founding fathers established the concept, separation of church and state has been a proclamation that Americans preach but do not practice. Today’s government is very much associated with religion and religious ideas, and it is both ironic and disappointing to have strayed so far from what the founding fathers intended and what Americans pretend to preach. By aligning the country over the years to favor one religion and integrate that religion into the political system, Americans take one step closer to completely alienating those of different beliefs than the masses. “Freedoms are undermined when a religious concept not shared by all Americans is interjected into our great patriotic oath” (Williams 119). By uniting the independent natures of politics and religion, the United States continually shifts itself to becoming something it was never meant to be.

Religious intertwinement in politics and government is an undeniable aspect in today’s society. Specifically, Christian beliefs have become an integrated part of our society and government over any other religion, and this influence has grown substantially in the recent past. However, religious interference in our government was not intended by the founding fathers, and many of the religious aspects of our government that are seen today were not initially intended. Many of the founding fathers favored the path of Enlightenment which, in contrast to Christianity, is a path of personal growth and emphasis on science over faith. Frank R. Zindler, editor of American Atheist, makes an interesting point regarding the relation between religion and its place in American government: “Because religious belief is at the root of scientific ignorance, religion must be replaced with reason and sanity.” Additionally, he criticizes the purpose of religion and its effect on the future of America,

“We must not forget that it is the job of religion to keep America ignorant. Priest and preachers are secure in their power only if their minions are ignorant of everything except the self serving propaganda fed them by their brainwashers. It is the ignorance fostered by religion that now threatens our very species with extinction. It is this ignorance that has gained control of our federal government. This ignorance must be dispelled. This ignorance must be expelled from the governmental side of the wall that once separated the state from the church in this dear land. Only by expelling religion from the government of this nation can we repair the damage done by the failure of reality testing that it has fostered” (Zindler 76).

Many people argue over what exact principles this country was founded upon, citing recent events or laws that have been in place for only a short period of time. However, the evidence that our founding fathers intended to found this nation without any religious principles in mind is irrefutable. Likewise, the founding fathers chose to withhold religion from their government because they knew the evils it fostered and knew the self-serving motives and consequential dangers of including any religion in a government’s power. The founding fathers believed strongly in a strict personal expression of religion, and saw that it had no place in any political position. America can only hope to work against religion becoming more integrated in government, because by doing nothing to remove religion from the government, religion will become increasingly intertwined and inseparable from the country envisioned and created by the founding fathers.


« Last Edit: October 15, 2009, 01:09:36 AM by MetalMusicMan » Logged
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« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2009, 12:35:39 PM »

I will definitely read this whole thing-- I assume you wrote this for school?

lmfao, I love this quote,
Quote
In 1796, John Adams and George Washington united to pass the treaty of Tripoli, in which it stated “The government of The United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion” (Morgan 24).

<3 you andy.  I'll have to add that to my awesome proof list.  I already knew about the pledge adding "under god" and the coins adding "in god we trust" in the 50's, they're 2 of my favorite proofs, and now I have 3 awesome arguments about how we were never anywhere near as stupidly religious as we are now until like 50 years ago.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2009, 12:46:19 PM by MetalMusicMan » Logged
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« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2009, 02:04:00 PM »

The first people to live here were very religious. those Puritans did not establish our government. nuff said.
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« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2009, 10:12:23 PM »

Founding fathers or not, our government has always been partnered with christian religious belief. I just read an amazing book about Abraham Lincoln, which i think pretty much everyone should read, called Team of Rivals (seriously, it's non fiction, but super well written and very interesting; Very sad too, to imagine what our country might be like if he hadn't been assassinated), and Lincoln was not really religious at all (he was christian, but never attended church and didn't think much of spiritual things), and wound up being a big believer during his time as president.

Also, I'm not a big fan of religion, but, honestly, it's always BOO RELIGION GO ATHEISM up in here, it's like a fucking freshman college class.
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« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2009, 10:14:06 PM »

Also, I'm not a big fan of religion, but, honestly, it's always BOO RELIGION GO ATHEISM up in here, it's like a fucking freshman college class.

Sorry, I'll try to be more pro-religious and make it more like a kindergarten class for you.
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« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2009, 10:21:46 PM »

Ahhh, i knew that'd happen.

Honestly, it's just fucking annoying. Yes, religion can be terrible. Yes, lack of religion can also be terrible (PS: It was Lincoln's belief in God that led him to free the slaves, good thing he wound up believing!).

It's a debate that doesn't need to happen, and it doesn't need to be brought up. The nicest people i know are all religious. A lot of assholes that i know are self professed atheists that sprout the kind of shit that always is on these forums about AHHHH FUCK RELIGION! That's really my point, both have their positives and negatives, and only fucking smartass man-children seriously think like you guys do about it most of the time.


PS: The act of being atheist doesn't make you cool, it makes you a douchebag. I really like Warkirby's article, that's the sort of stuff that is well thought out and worth posting, and I'm sorry for posting this here, but all this other AHHH ATHEISM shit is retarded.



PPS: Bonus new rammstein album lyric translation : I'm gonna hurt you, and I don't care, it does me good, when you (plural) scream.  (about sex)

edit: inc the atheism legion to scream about how brainwashed/stupid i am.
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« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2009, 11:19:31 PM »

I enjoy being an atheistic douche bag.  Those who see what I am doing as douchie or are offended by it deserve to be so.  Tongue
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« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2009, 11:21:49 PM »

That's my point, you guys seem to be atheist just cuz it's the hip "against society" thing to do.

Well, except Captain Warkirby who seems to have put some thought in to it at least (assuming you wrote that yourself).
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« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2009, 11:35:24 PM »

::stares at oog's can of worms::

 ::decides not to comment.....for now::

+1 post
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« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2009, 11:51:10 PM »

i think religion is awful, however spiritualism can be good. i still won't call myself an atheist because its the same cocky certainty and belief pushing that i hate about the religious establishment. i've read good chunks of the god delusion, and it reads like a bible for atheists, with him as an almost self proclaimed messiah.
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« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2009, 12:08:14 AM »

i think religion is awful, however spiritualism can be good. i still won't call myself an atheist because its the same cocky certainty and belief pushing that i hate about the religious establishment. i've read good chunks of the god delusion, and it reads like a bible for atheists, with him as an almost self proclaimed messiah.


Ahhhhh yoggi i love you.

So much.
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« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2009, 12:14:04 AM »

BUTT BUDDIES 4 LYFE
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« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2009, 07:24:49 AM »

I've put plenty of thought into my stance on this, far more than the average retard.  I think you assume that I've never had a rational conversation on the topic simply because I haven't had one with you.  

I've spent loads of time having unoffensive point-by-point conversations and arguments with people about it.  As a non-retarded person, it's my right to decide that I am tired of taking the time to help people take baby steps to reach an evident conclusion that they purposely ignore.

This willing ignorance is offensive to my intelligence, and I am tired of tolerating it.  I did my part, now I don't care so I'm just a douche about it.  

People who try to pretend that their religion's fairy tale stories can hold a candle to facts, truth, logic, and science are being far bigger douches to me, only for some reason it's acceptable to be a douche in that fashion... so why would I waste my time?  No, I think I'll just be a douche right back before I even give them the chance.

It has nothing to do with being cool and everything to do with being fed up.



I have always said that spiritualism is fine, it's religion that's bad.  My opinions are my own--I have never read The God Delusion, although I own the book because Jen randomly bought it to see what all the fuss was about and figured I might want to read it at some point.
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« Reply #13 on: October 13, 2009, 08:12:53 AM »

BUTT BUDDIES 4 LYFE
oh i get it oog, your cheating on me. thanks jerk
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« Reply #14 on: October 13, 2009, 08:37:48 AM »

The argument revolves around an afterlife. After death is the only time we will know one way or the other. Thus arguing with a religious person about it is futile. While it seems insanely desperate to believe that you will join your twisted stepfather in the sky it is also pretty ignorant to say you know anything about what happens after you die. I have had a near death experience and seen the tunnel, black then white, a million memories flash by in seconds, but I clearly have not gone past the point of no return as I am still alive. I'm agnostic, but lean more to atheism because 99% of the arguments for religion are 100% illogical.

The morality argument is the only one that religion can even float out there supporting a need for their existence. I do believe people can learn morals on their own/from other sources, but parenting these days has gone in the crapper with dual income families. Then again religion has a pretty shitty track record of following through with their morals.

Basically I don't waste my time arguing with religious folks unless I'm drunk and looking for a fight. If they are actively choosing to be brain washed we can not help them. I will however converse with atheists about agnosticism as they are generally intelligent and not sheep like.
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