Early Experiences with Windows Vista 64-bit

[MetalMusicMan]

First of all, I appologize for any typos or walls of text, it's 3am and I am grinding this out

I just finished building my new PC with Windows Vista Home Premium 64-bit edition, system specs are:

Core2 Duo e6300 (Overclocked from 1.8ghz to 2.10ghz, will go higher soon I hope when I get time to eff with it).
4GB Corsair XMS2 Dominator DDR2-800 overclocked @ 900mhz
eVGA GeForce 8800GTX overclocked to 621/2000 from 500/1800 core/memory
400gb Seagate 3.0gb/s Sata II HardDrive
MSI P965 Platinum
Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Fatality xTreme Gamer Professional series
Samsung 225bw 22" wLCD 1680x1050 resolution.

Early Experiences with Windows Vista 64-bit

Early Experiences with Windows Vista 64-bit

Early Experiences with Windows Vista 64-bit

Vista Box           |          Look at how damned big that graphics card is...           |             A messy case, because I don't care anymore

So, now that I'm done bragging and stuff, I figured I'd go over my fun-loving joyous 5-hour ride through 64-bit Vista mountain!!!

Initial concerns: 
-Will the Creative soundcard actually work?  How bad will the Vista issues be?
-What other doomed driver issues will there be?
-Program compatability?
-TV Tuner Compatability.

Initial Excitement:
-AERO! 
-It's Vista!
-It's a new computer!

Hopefully this will serve as something of a guide for any problems ya'll will encounter when installing Vista on your own PC's, whenever you decide to do so.

And so begins the tale... I started disassembling the old PC and taking parts out of the case around 1pm today.  It's currently 3am.  It usually takes me about 1 to 2 hours to build a full PC ready to go on Windows XP, if that gives you any concept of the fun I've been having   All Vista bashing aside, everything went smoother than I thought, most of what took time was Googling the few issues that were present, but the issues themselves weren't as plentiful as I thought they'd be. 

The first issue I encountered came along before Vista had even loaded itself-- Vista could not read my IDE controller on first loading of the DVD-- it saw my SATA drives, and my floppy, but could not read my DVD/CD-rom drives (I didn't buy any beefy Sata DVD-rom drives).  It took me about an hour to figure things out, but apparently there is a 64-bit version of the IDE controller floating around somewhere on MSI's website, which I downloaded on another machine and installed.  The really cool part was that I put the file on a USB flash drive, and Vista (even though it hadn't even been installed yet) read the USB drive with no issues, found the driver, and installed it.  NO FLOPPIES NECESSARY.  That's freaking cool.

The second issue that I encountered was after Vista had loaded all of the DVD files into the RAM and was ready to pick a hard drive.  Vista saw all of my hard drives, but could not install anything onto them, because it couldn't "verify that the drive was capable of [some stupid bullshit]".  That took a while to figure out too, at least another hour or so.  Basically, the issue was that my motherboard had RAID enabled, and vista apparently didn't like that.  Turning off the RAID in my bios fixed the issue.  I strongly advise against RAIDs in Vista from my personal experience thus far, as far as I could tell there is no way at all to get vista to install onto a RAID drive, but then again this is the only Vista computer I've ever built and it could quite possibly be an issue specific to MY motherboard or MY driver.  Then again, even with the 30-some-odd XP based systems that I built, I never found much use for RAID at all, even when I was using it, things didn't really go any faster that what I would expect on a non-raid setup.  So, basically, RAID seems rather ... redundant.  Funny how it stands for Redundant array of independent disks... how appropriate.

From there on out, installation was smooth sailing... slow, smooth sailing.  Vista took about an hour just to install and load everything.  Something kind of neat was that it activated and downloaded windows updates via the internet all during the installation without ever asking me for anything other than a CD-Key.  Embedded Ethernet drivers for the win.

Once vista was up and running, every single driver on my computer loaded with a functioning default driver, with exception to the two usual culprits-- the video card and sound card.  The nVidia x64 8800gtx driver downloaded and installed great, no issues at all.  Surprisingly, so did the Creative X-Fi sound card driver!  I snagged the driver from Creative's website and the soundcard started working great right away.  I was amazed.  The only issues I had came when I tried to install the software CD-Rom goodies and applications from the X-Fi CD... DO NOT EVER DO THAT.  EVER.  I KNOW YOU WANT TO.  THROW THE X-FI CD ROM AWAY IF YOU HAVE VISTA.  IT WILL EXPLODE EVERYTHING.  Installing the applications on the X-Fi cd caused my computer to immediately start making popping noises, whining, locking up, and it took about an hour just to install the damned thing, then another hour to uninstall it after that.  Just download the x64 Vista driver from creative and install it, and throw the CD away, that's the lesson that I learned the hard way.

Once everything finally got uninstalled about 2 hours later, my X-Fi was working great again.  I was worried about not having any of the creative software at first, because I've never liked Windows' sound management software... boy, have they pimped that shit up in Vista.  Check this out:

Early Experiences with Windows Vista 64-bit

Right click sound Icon

Early Experiences with Windows Vista 64-bit

Click Playback devices

Early Experiences with Windows Vista 64-bit

Clicking "configure" while your speakers are selected

Early Experiences with Windows Vista 64-bit

...and that opens up the speaker config window...

Early Experiences with Windows Vista 64-bit

You can disable individual sets of speakers, so if you're a ghetto blasah mastah like me and you
don't have your rear speakers connected, windows will let you disable them!

Early Experiences with Windows Vista 64-bit

When your done, you can click "properties" and then click the "tone" tab to adjust bass and treble.

During the sound setup, I realized that there was ocassionally a popping sound coming out of my speakers, associated with a hickup in my computer performance.  I couldn't figure out what it was for quite a while, but then I realized that it was related to my CD/DVD-rom drives... very strange indeed, but it's true.  Every time a CD/DVD starts to spin, the computer hangs for about 1-3 seconds and any sound is distorted for the duration of the initial spin-up.  Annoying, but ignorable, since I rarely use my optical drives.  I am not sure how this effects CD-audio from music CDs at this time.  My guess is that CD-Audio would be unbearable.

Once I setup all of my soundcard stuff, I was ready to start jamming and rocking out with some good old fashioned Winamp, because it really whips the llama's ass!  I was pretty disturbed when I saw that Winamp was listed as "incompatable with Vista"... I was ready to KILL!  I thought I'd try installing Winamp anyway, to see if it would work despite the warning.  Sure enough, as soon as it was done installing, when I opened Winamp up I got an error message about "PX.dll".  What a pain in the ass.  There was a work around for it listed on the Winamp forums, which basically consisted of me downloading a .dll file and putting it in the system folder.  Easy enough.  It should also be known that there is an issue with Winamp keyboard binds conflicting with Microsoft Intellitype keyboard software.  If you have a microsoft keyboard, you'll have to chose between winamp keyboard binds and the microsoft software. I chose Winamp.  After that, I was jamming as usual.

I have no idea how World of Warcraft works yet, because I lost my CDs and I am in the process of downloading the 3GB trial copy to play on, fucking A. 
((UPDATE February 11:: I just got WoW working and it works awesome, no problems. The Creative ALchemy program works great.  I converted WoW from DirectSound to OpenAL and presto, WoW sounds just fine and works great, full hardware sound acceleration.  The conversion from DirectSound to OpenAL took less than half of a second.  It's literally just a click away.))

Battlefield 2142 runs GREAT, sounds GREAT, looks GREAT.  100% Vista compatable.  I had an error message when the CD first auto ran, but I just re-ran the setup and everyting worked great.

Windows Media Center remains mostly unchanged, save the visuals.  Unfortunately, as of right now my TV tuner is NOT WORKING with Media Center, even though it is "Vista Certified".  Go figure.  Now I can't watch TV.  Pretty annoying.  If I find a fix, I'll post it.  I use a Hauppauge WinTV PVR-500 MCE Kit tuner.

That's about all of the major stuff, here's a recap of what works, what doesn't, and what works with a fix.

Hardware/Software that worked 100% no issues:
Trend Micro PC Cillin 2007 Internet Security
nVidia GeForce 8800GTX and drivers
Mozilla Firefox
Elder Scrolls Oblivion
Battlefield 2142
Smart FTP Client
Ventrilo (It has a new Vista Text-To-Speach voice now, sexy!)
BitTornado
MS Office 2007
WinRAR
World of Wacraft

Hardware/Software that worked after minor fixes:
Winamp Media Player (.dll download)
Adobe Photoshop CS (Right click shortcut and select "run as administrator"
Diablo II Lord of Destruction (right click shortcut and select "Windows XP compatibility mode")

Hardware/Software that works with a beta driver and minor issues:
Creative Soundblaster X-Fi Fatality xtreme gamer Professional (Sounds great, just doesn't have any software, has occasional pops in sound but are rare.  The pops are related to CD rom activity, how I do not know)

Hardware/Software that is not working at all or is virtually useless because of bugs:
Hauppauge WinTV PVR500 MCE (Media Centers sees the card, but I get a static picture, and then every 10 seconds about a 1 second blip of my actually TV signal.  Wierd)
Razer Copperhead mouse SOFTWARE (mouse works fine just using windows software, you just can't change the interpolling rates.  Sensitivity and DPI settings work fine via the mouse's firmware.)
PowerISO
Partition Magic
Creative Sound Blaster software of ANY kind.
Nero 7 Ultimate Edition (Will not complete the install process)


My thoughts, Positive:
-64 Bit version runs FAST.
-Aero does, indeed, cause no noticeable slowdown what-so-ever.  You heard it from me first hand.  It looks pretty, and it doesn't do anything.  I also have 4GB of ram, though... 
-It's pretty!
-It's stable!  At one point today, my video card driver crashed, but instead of blue-screening, windows just reloaded the display.  My music kepy playing, and I resumed working about 30 seconds later after the display driver reloaded.  Very cool.
-Flip 3D is wicked cool.  Windows Key + Tab key = amazing 3d flipping action that's way cooler than Alt+Tab

My thoughts, negative:
-Sound Card support is better than I thought it would be given the revisions, but it needs to be better, fast.  It's not bad enough for me to discourage against Vista or against Creative cards with Vista, but it needs a non-beta driver.
-It took me 12 hours to do everything, damn it.

Well, that's all she wrote, folks.  I braved Vista because it sounded fun, and because I wanted to be able to tell you all what to expect.  It wasn't anywhere near as bad as everyone said it would be, but it's certainly not the walk in the park that Windows XP SP2 had become.  Give it just a little time, this operating system will become VERY good, I'm sure of it.  I see a bright future for Vista.

[zakath]

wall of text crits you for 5 billion.
you die

[magnesium]

TLDR



...


Just kidding. Funny that you ran into many of the issues that I ran into, but I have a few more positive things to say that you didn't mention.

First off, Administrator account is something you get to name. How rad is that?
Secondly, you have zero excuse to use the admin account. Create your own and if something needs admin access, it prompts you. Not only does it prompt you, but you can see exactly what program is being invoked with what options if click on the drop down arrow.
You can manage all the windows hidden startup files though the control panel.

Some Negatives:
If the drive that you're installing Vista onto is not selected as your primary boot drive in bios, you'll run into some issues where windows vaguely tells you that the drive is not compatible with vista.
Vista is not great at determining if your applications are 64bit or not, and sometimes will prompt you to place the app in program files (x86).

Informational:
If you're installing the 64bit version, you cannot use 32bit drivers. Even though it will run 32bit applications, drivers are different and rely on being the same type as the kernel, so if your kernel is 64 bit so must your drivers be.
64bit vista drivers are not as prevalent as 32 bit drivers are because people have not spent the same amount of time refining and developing them. It will come with time.

[Oograx]

L2read.

Will, did you just spend like 2.5 thousand dollars on a comp? /jealous.

[MetalMusicMan]

~ $1,800 - but yeah, it pwnz hard.

Mags - I hate that UAP administrator crap, man.  I turned it off because I was tired of it asking me, since I'm already an admin account, why the hell does it need me to click "okay"?  I went to MSconfig and turned off UAP (user account protection)... any thoughts on that stuff?

[magnesium]

~ $1,800 - but yeah, it pwnz hard.

Mags - I hate that UAP administrator crap, man.  I turned it off because I was tired of it asking me, since I'm already an admin account, why the hell does it need me to click "okay"?  I went to MSconfig and turned off UAP (user account protection)... any thoughts on that stuff?

It's a very bad idea is my thought on that. Now you have no idea what your system is doing or if a program is installing spyware or whatever. Also, as I stated before, you have no excuse to run your computer with an admin account. You're just asking to get owned. Every single book you can find will tell you to not run under admin (or root) if you don't absolutely have to. Why on earth do you think Microsoft changed their system to have these features?

[MetalMusicMan]

Dude, I have never had a problem with spyware infecting my computer on any system... It's called Internet Security software... why the hell would I run on a standard account anyway?  I get it, the windows pops up and I have to "approve" installation of the software.  Do you honestly think thatt here won't be a spyware/virus work-a-round for that in like 5 seconds?  I have a very hard time believing that that will actually improve security at all.

[KaggyPoo]

Cool man, although i dont plan on getting windows vista for a long time

[magnesium]

Dude, I have never had a problem with spyware infecting my computer on any system... It's called Internet Security software... why the hell would I run on a standard account anyway?  I get it, the windows pops up and I have to "approve" installation of the software.  Do you honestly think thatt here won't be a spyware/virus work-a-round for that in like 5 seconds?  I have a very hard time believing that that will actually improve security at all.

You don't seem to get it and I doubt that you want to hear it. Internet Security software does not exist. There are suites of products but they are band-aide solutions to weak operating systems. Microsoft has improved their operating system because customers have been asking them to, but it's not a convenience. And no, there won't be spyware/virus work arounds for this because it's built into the kernel. The only way that would happen is if they could exploit a flaw in the kernel for this specific piece, and we have to be optimistic that such a flaw does not exist, until proven wrong. Running under admin privileges means that everything you run runs under the same privileges. Scripts on webpages (java script, flash, are running on your system as admin (how the myspace worms work), adware/spyware/rootkits tied to software installation, and exploits against applications (booby trapped MP3s, images or web pages for example) can all be mitigated by following that principle. It comes down to do you want to blow away a user profile if things get sticky, or blow away the operating system.

Obviously the choice is yours because it is a balance between convenience and security.

[MetalMusicMan]

You can't put a virus in an MP3 as far as I know... now, you can disguise a file as an MP3 and have the "real" file type be an MP3, but an audio file of that format is not capable of having a virus embedded in it, in my experience.  Neither are MPEG videos-- there are plenty of viruses in AVI and MOV videos, however.

I get exactly how the UAP works, don't be silly.  I know exactly why it was implimented and exactly how it protects me.  I also understand that Internet Security software is not 100% fool proof.  However, UAP did not exist with Windows XP, and I never had a problem with a virus.  Any files that had viruses were zapped and destroyed.  UAP is great stuff for people who aren't very saavy, or who don't know how to avoid viruses, but I find it completely unnecissary for myself, especially considering that I have never needed it before.

Also, yes the coding is embedded into the kernel, but I have a very hard time believing that even with that said, there will not be a workaround for it very soon.

Anyway, bleh.  I don't like UAP, and it's a magical savior of the PC world, IMO.

[magnesium]

you might find the article at http://www.itsecurity.com/features/nastiest-malware-trends-011207/ interesting, especially the drive-by-download and media malware sections.

And I'd argue that UAP is not very useful for people that are not savvy but is there instead to enable people using non-administrative accounts the benefit of seeing exactly what functionality is being asked of their system. Where the average user might not care that some program they downloaded is trying to access user account information or change system files, experienced users would understand that those are special areas that should not be necessarily accessed by something they downloaded.

As far as a workaround for it, I think that would be convincing people to disable it is the best approach. The new Mac commercial does a pretty good attack against it for marketing purposes. Then again, Mac likes to brand itself that they are impervious to viruses or flawed software, and the public eats it up even though that's not the case. In other words, they're not the best people to listen to on security issues.

[MetalMusicMan]

Apple is retarded, no debate there.  The only reason that they are impervious to viruses is because they are a niche market.  Scenario:  you're a virus programmer, what are you going to program for?  Windows or Macintosh?  yeah, exactly.

Where the average user might not care that some program they downloaded is trying to access user account information or change system files, experienced users would understand that those are special areas that should not be necessarily accessed by something they downloaded.

Right, but it fucking asks me if I want to authorize every other god damned thing I click on.  Every time I open Photoshop "DID YOU AUTHORIZE THIS?".  Every time I start my FTP program "DID YOU AUTHORIZE THIS?".  Every time I paste anything into the Program Files folder "DID YOU AUTHORIZE THIS!??!?!?!".   It's fucking annoying bro. 

If UAP had an "authorized programs list" or a way to remember what you had said "yes" to, then MAYBE it wouldn't be so fucking annoying.  As it stands, it's a completely over-done in-your-face annoying piece of shit.  The amount of annoyance that it brings is not worth 1/10 of the security that it provides.

[magnesium]

Wow, that is a lot more annoying then my experience. I'm surprised there's not a way to authorize apps like you suggest, or when you do it once say authorize for all times the way the program is started that way. No doubt, that is more annoying then useful.

[zakath]

is it true that if you dont buy vista, you have to pay for dx10?

because if so.... WHAT THE FUCK!!!

[MetalMusicMan]

DX10 will not be available for anything but Vista, as far as I know.  ...unless I missed an update.


Oh, also, as an update-- I just got WoW working and stuff, and the Creative ALchemy program works great.  I converted WoW from DirectSound to OpenAL and presto, WoW sounds just fine and works great, full hardware sound acceleration.  The conversion from DirectSound to OpenAL took less than half of a second.  It's literally just a click away.