The Single Most Important Thing That You Will Ever Read

[MetalMusicMan]

I've linked this before, but it definitely deserves a sticky.  This right here is exactly why people get frustrated with fightning games.  This is exactly why people call you "cheap" for winning.  This is exactly what keeps people from ever understanding how a game works: themselves.

Sirlin wrote this article so very long ago but it is still the #1 thing that most players will never understand because of their own misconceptions. 

Read it.  Be Enlightened.  Become intelligent.  Stop letting your own mind keep you from being great.

This is the kind of 100% objective attitude you should take on all parts of your life-- I honestly believe that.  Your own personal biases are what keep you from succeeding, and this is the kind of attitude that you need to conquer them.

http://www.sirlin.net/articles/playing-to-win-part-1.html




Also, here's another treat.  http://www.sirlin.net/storage/articles/balance/GDC 2009 sirlin handout6.pdf

Sirlin's hand out at 2009's game developer's conference.  I especially like the part about "Viable Options" and "Intuition".

[darkarsenic]

i've done that before XD throw a scrub mercilessly in street fighter 2 because he didn't know how to counter it, and its actually pretty hard to counter, but i really hate those people who never learn. there was a ryu i faced who would ALWAYS at the beginning of the match, fire off a hadouken, and i would always do a  jumping roundhouse, standing strong punch, standing fierce punch, which would dizzy him, then follow up with a jumping roundhouse, standing fierce to her super for the win. i played him about 5 times, and he never learned :\ this is why i love going to the arcade i goto, since i'm not very good at street fighter games compared to pros, everyone is pretty chill and if they hang around enough(or if you give them quarters to, third strike and SFII is only a quarter a game) they'll teach you what they know or give you tips whenever you play. i also hate those people who blame how much they suck because they use a certain character, and refuse to use a "high tier" character. my friend keith complains how "cheap" chun-li is compared to his ken, who is just below her, because she has range, priority, and one of the most damaging specials(even if blocked) in the game. like when i play chun-li in street fighter 2 turbo, she gets rocked by old sagat, but i'm learning to play Dhalsim to counter that, instead of just bitching that hes such a good counter character.

Another post
Wow, i actually started reading it, when it got to discipline and sheathed sword, wow... i never thought about mental fatigue as being something that could happen at tournaments, cuz when i thought about it, a real tournament has like, 200 people, so you are gonna be there for a while, and you HAVE to be there, in case someone drops out and your match comes early and stuff... and losing because of a stupid mistake and letting it ghost you, or worrying about the future big shot that'll kick your ass... i have a feeling i'm gonna buy this book :\

[MetalMusicMan]

it's great advice eh? 

[darkarsenic]

really good advice, pretty much says, fuck the honor code at tournaments, save it for friendlies, completely contradicts my friends mentality and completely points out why he sucks XD hes a little bitch who says oh, every character is good, and doesn't believe in tier lists.

[MetalMusicMan]

Well your friend probably IS stupid, but that doesn't mean that playing Metaknight is always your best option or whatever.  Tiers are more of an estimation than anything.

Tier lists can never be 100% accurate (at least not until the game is really, really, really old) and even then, they are still only an approximation of equal skill with said characters, and do not necessarily account for specific character vs. character match ups or playstyle.

Look at Melee-- the game has been out for almost a decade and people still disapprove certain characters' tier placement.

[darkarsenic]

oh sorry, i forgot to mention it was about Marvel vs Capcom 2, where infinites rule, and the smallest mistake turns into your character being dead. i mean the japanese always disproved our american tier lists by learning EVERYTHING about a character and they actually work hard to learn matchups and dominate :O

[MetalMusicMan]

http://www.sirlin.net/storage/articles/balance/GDC%202009%20sirlin%20handout6.pdf

Sirlin's hand out at the game developer's conference.  I especially like the part about "Viable Options" and "Intuition".

[oograx]

Did i miss the part where games are played for fun. Since, well, they're games.

[darkarsenic]

you did, theres a time and place for playing for fun, and theres a time and place for competitive play. when i play street fighter with my friends, we usually don't mess around(its pretty serious matches, even if its just for fun), but we try new things to find out if it works or not, but at a tournament, we probably wouldn't risk it.

[sonchez]

kinda on the same note as oograx here. I didn't like the part where he claimed that people who devote lots of time into being good at the game are having more fun than people who don't. I'm absolute shit at SF but I've had matched with my friends where we have ended up laughing so hard we were in tears. While some may have more fun, not all are. He confuses the ideas of satisfaction as a reward and fun. Its a problem alot of gamers have. i don't have genuine fun playing super mario...I don't. Still, when I reach the end of a vicious stage i feel satisfaction in my accomplishment. I still say "oh its fun" but what i mean is "Its an ego boost, I proved that i could beat this challenge, which makes me think higher of myself", thats it. Laughter is the ultimate expression of fun, not egoism. Gaming for alot of people is more like a sport than an experience, and thats something I'm uncomfortable with because i see it as a emerging form of art

He also seems to have the opinion that if your not playing to win then you shouldn't be playing. As if for some reason, the only reason to play a game was for competition. This article is good for a competitive gamer, but its far from objective. There is nothing wrong with competition, I used to curl competitively. My teams coach was the skip on the Saskatchewan team at nationals sometime during the 80's. So i understand the whole playing to win and trying to master a sport thing. I still play recreationally whenever i find a rink, and i still have as much fun as i did when we were playing competitively. What this guy is missing, is an understanding of recreation and competitive play. I don't think he quite understands that both can co-exist without each labeling the other side with negative stereotypes. I'm actually kind of insulted by it. It spits in the face of gaming culture progress in exchange for some competitive ego boost.

When gaming evolves into an artform, I don't want it to end up with Snobbish "experts" like you find in Art Galleries. People who assume that expertise in a media format decides who is allowed to attend and experience the art.  At no point in this article did he ever say there was a middle ground. just simply that either you play competitively and be good at it or GTFO. This kind of stuff pisses me off from the pure arrogance of it. Its disgusting when people express elitism like that. Good for him for being good at a game, honestly, but when you look down on others for not having the same goals or experiences as you, that's just sad.

[MetalMusicMan]

Did i miss the part where games are played for fun. Since, well, they're games.

Playing competitively and in the fashion he described is fun.  VERY fun.

[Yoggi]

Did i miss the part where games are played for fun. Since, well, they're games.

i agree, theirs only a certain level of cereal i can enjoy with games

[oograx]

Did i miss the part where games are played for fun. Since, well, they're games.

Playing competitively and in the fashion he described is fun.  VERY fun.

kinda on the same note as oograx here. I didn't like the part where he claimed that people who devote lots of time into being good at the game are having more fun than people who don't. I'm absolute shit at SF but I've had matched with my friends where we have ended up laughing so hard we were in tears. While some may have more fun, not all are. He confuses the ideas of satisfaction as a reward and fun. Its a problem alot of gamers have. i don't have genuine fun playing super mario...I don't. Still, when I reach the end of a vicious stage i feel satisfaction in my accomplishment. I still say "oh its fun" but what i mean is "Its an ego boost, I proved that i could beat this challenge, which makes me think higher of myself", thats it. Laughter is the ultimate expression of fun, not egoism. Gaming for alot of people is more like a sport than an experience, and thats something I'm uncomfortable with because i see it as a emerging form of art

He also seems to have the opinion that if your not playing to win then you shouldn't be playing. As if for some reason, the only reason to play a game was for competition. This article is good for a competitive gamer, but its far from objective. There is nothing wrong with competition, I used to curl competitively. My teams coach was the skip on the Saskatchewan team at nationals sometime during the 80's. So i understand the whole playing to win and trying to master a sport thing. I still play recreationally whenever i find a rink, and i still have as much fun as i did when we were playing competitively. What this guy is missing, is an understanding of recreation and competitive play. I don't think he quite understands that both can co-exist without each labeling the other side with negative stereotypes. I'm actually kind of insulted by it. It spits in the face of gaming culture progress in exchange for some competitive ego boost.

When gaming evolves into an artform, I don't want it to end up with Snobbish "experts" like you find in Art Galleries. People who assume that expertise in a media format decides who is allowed to attend and experience the art.  At no point in this article did he ever say there was a middle ground. just simply that either you play competitively and be good at it or GTFO. This kind of stuff pisses me off from the pure arrogance of it. Its disgusting when people express elitism like that. Good for him for being good at a game, honestly, but when you look down on others for not having the same goals or experiences as you, that's just sad.

Oh man sonchez, that was very well put. Guess that english major/journalist thing is flowing well. My point is that he's basically like ONLY FAGS PLAY VIDEO GAMES TO HAVE FUN, IT IZ A SPOART, and I have to say, yeah, i like competition too and it can be fun but his article still embodies everything i hate about competitive gaming, namely that it's taken WAY too seriously at every level, not just at the levels where you can consider yourself a professional (ie, you live off of gaming). This is why i don't do much competitive gaming and why i stopped playing a lot of dawn of war 2, yeah, it's an awesome ego boost when you beat someone much better/higher ranked/whatever, and i get excited as fuck afterwards, but looking back it's a sweaty nervous stressful experience, not what i would usually call "fun" per se.

Also, i really like what sonchez said about that kind of attitude ruining the growth of the genre as an art form (and in general). I mean, look what competition has done to world of warcraft. I remember when i had fun pvping/raiding/whatever, but blizzard had to spend so much time and do so much to "balance" the game that it took away all the fun stuff.

edit: Also, if some dude had to act all pro and shit at an arcade/at my house/whatever when we were playing say, sf4, i'd break his fucking nose and steal his tokens/cash/lunch money. You gonna act like a fag i'm gonna break yo face.

[sonchez]

oggrax we need to get everyone on the same page and play some battlefield 2 again sometime

[WarKirby]

i can see where competitive playing is fun. cool, if youre into that. i love playing ssbb, but i dont have the energy, care or time to become really good at it. more power to you if you want to play it that way, thats just not me (at least all the time).

I totally agree that people can play for competition or recreation (without the intensity of the ladder) and still have the same level of fun. people who think that playing for sport, i.e. playing competitively, is the only way to have fun or "100%" enjoy the game are very mistaken. I can play a pick up game of ssbb or any other game, and have just as much fun as anyone else.

if you want to play to win, go for it, im not going to stop you. but dont say that one way is better than the other. i would come down equally hard on people who rail on competitive gamers. i dont care about all the ways to be elite at ssbb, but i know that people who do devote that much time to that style of play are having fun, and its not my place to rail on them.

i was going to quote oogs post and put "this", and also comment on sonchez's eloquent post, but people have already done that and it would seem redundant.